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-   -   Translated Alice (unicode version) (http://www.alice.org/community/showthread.php?t=3487)

meirs 12-01-2009 07:33 AM

Translated Alice (unicode version)
 
Hello

I'm working on a Unicode version of Alice, translated to several languages, among them Spanish, Russian, Ethiopian, Hebrew, French, Italian, Arabic, and Yiddish (no joking). I just wanted to describe what I did in one thread, to where I can forward questions regarding Alice's i18n issues from other threads.

Main changes made:
* support for Unicode - both in code and in world format (that is, changed worlds format, thus not back compatible to Alice worlds, but included an import tool)
* added a rich scripting support using Mama programming language - this is a full object oriented language I've created few years ago, designed for teaching programming in mid-schools, where students can write code in their own mother tongue. With this scripting language you can really write free code within the editing area, and manipulate scene objects.
* added support for scenery and characters (improved StoryTellingAlice functionality)
* added tutorial editor tool for instructors
* added a movie export with audio (improved 2.2 functionality)
* added support for creating user standalone executables (under MS-Windows)
* many bug fixes (and probably introducing new ones :)
* and more

This version is not going to be open source, neither free, I'm planning to charge about 10 $USD for it, the minimal cost I thought would be tolerable by most students.

I had discussions with Alice team regarding the name given to this version - I really wanted to include the name "Alice" in it, since majority of it is Alice, created by the Alice team. But Alice's license forbids that (see this thread [url]http://alice.org/community/showthread.php?t=2615&highlight=license[/url]). So currently, it is planned to be called "Mama" after the programming language integrated into Alice.

I don't know if Alice 2.0/2.2 development continues, if it does I would love to contribute many of the fixes I've made to future releases.

Meir

x2495iiii 12-01-2009 01:01 PM

Sounds great! Will it be in English as well?

Also, Alice 2.2 is no longer being developed. All their effort is being put into Alice 3.0, so if your version works, it'll be the most advanced, stable release yet.

meirs 12-01-2009 01:44 PM

Sure, after all it's the default language :)

meirs 01-21-2010 09:08 AM

The new version of unicode Alice/Mama is ready
 
Finally, the unicode version of Alice - named Mama - is ready! It is available in both English and Hebrew (soon will have it in many other languages).

Main improvements:
* added Mama programming language as a (rich) scripting laungauge - 3D scene objects can be manipulated using this scripting mechanism
* full support for Unicode
* support for 3D object creation using ArtOfIllusion as a plugged-in external application
* support for uploading a movie to YouTube and publishing in Facebook
* support for scenery and characters
* tutorial editor tool for instructors
* movie export with audio
* support creating of user standalone executables
* better menu logic
* many bug fixes
* better popup menus logic
* and more

This version (with language selection) can be downloaded from [url]http://www.eytam.com/mama[/url]. This is a full version 30-day free trial, and afterwords it may be purchased for $10 USD.

Waiting for you comments,
Meir

x2495iiii 01-21-2010 12:15 PM

Fantastic! I'm ready to give the trial a run now!

Will it be able to convert already existing Alice worlds into standalone applications?

meirs 01-21-2010 12:41 PM

Sure, just go to "Tools" menu and select "Import Alice2 worlds". Let me know if you encounter any problem.

x2495iiii 01-21-2010 01:30 PM

Hmm...the installer didn't work the first time. Trying again...

I see it says you need Windows Vista or earlier. Does that mean that I can't use it if I have Windows 7?

meirs 01-21-2010 02:43 PM

It wasn't tested on Windows 7 :( so yes, it should run on Vista or earlier.

x2495iiii 01-21-2010 02:56 PM

Hmm...Well my windows 7 laptop isn't working so well with it so far. The import worlds feature loaded the world halfway, then said it was unable to load the world (tried this for two different worlds, same result.)

I absolutely love the 3d editing idea, though, that works great. The youTube uploading button is an awesome idea as well. Honestly this is a wonderful piece of software, great job!

meirs 01-22-2010 01:44 AM

Thanks x2495iiii, I will try checking the Windows 7 issues, though I'm afraid there are some basic directX incompatibilities.

lanceA 01-22-2010 04:14 PM

[QUOTE=meirs;15936]Finally, the unicode version of Alice - named Mama - is ready! It is available in both English and Hebrew (soon will have it in many other languages).[/QUOTE]

I downloaded the English version and it works on a machine running Windows 7, 64-bit with 6 Gig of ram.

Where can I download the Hebrew version trial copy, I did not see an option for that on the Web site you provided.

Great work!!

meirs 01-22-2010 04:24 PM

[QUOTE]I downloaded the English version and it works on a machine running Windows 7, 64-bit with 6 Gig of ram.
[/QUOTE]

You did? no problem with the installation? then I'm glad with it.

And you can find the Hebrew version here:
[url]http://he.eytam.com/mama[/url]

Let me know if you have any difficulty,
thanks,
Meir

lanceA 01-22-2010 04:28 PM

[QUOTE=meirs;15981]You did? no problem with the installation? then I'm glad with it.

And you can find the Hebrew version here:
[URL]http://he.eytam.com/mama[/URL]

Let me know if you have any difficulty,
thanks,
Meir[/QUOTE]

I just created an EXE file on the Win-7 machine called Test, this created a folder called Test. I then copied the Test folder to a machine running WinXP and started to run the world. It gave me the message "Error in loading the application" but then the world started running with no problems.

Thank you for the link to the Hebrew version.

lanceA 01-22-2010 04:37 PM

Is your installation program writing anything to the windows Regiatry? I only ask because I would like to run both the English and Hebrew version on a single machine for test purposes.

Thanks,

meirs 01-22-2010 04:52 PM

It does, but in a per language manner, so you should have no problem installing both languages on same OS.

lanceA 01-22-2010 06:06 PM

[QUOTE=meirs;15985]It does, but in a per language manner, so you should have no problem installing both languages on same OS.[/QUOTE]

Thank you. I will install both languages.

Also I have another question: My previous post mentioned that I transported an executable world from my Win-7 machine to my Win-XP machine and that it properly ran with a minor error message that did not cause any problems. However, I note on the Win-XP machine that it created a folder on my Desktop called mama_works. Inside that folder is a single foilder, My Library which has no data inside.

I was just curious why the folder was created on the Desktop.

Thanks again and Great Work!

lanceA 01-22-2010 07:43 PM

[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]meirs,[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]So far[B] Mama[/B] is working great! I have the English and Hebrew version running simultaneously on my Win-7 machine. How did you stop the memory leaks? :)[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]I can import Alice 2.0 worlds with no problems as long as there are no [I]Speech[/I] bubbles or [I]Thought[/I] bubbles in the world. Once the import process encounters one of these, the import program hangs.[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]I believe your fantastic efforts deserve that the Room open a new thread so we can help you 'tweak' a fantastic product. However, it would be very helpful if the x2495iiii, blah, blah'-person making models of guns and stuff that KILL could be encouraged to redirect [I]HIS[/I] energy to more positive ideas.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3] I want to use this with my students, and can't go the violence route. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]So far, only 16 people will not wake up tomorrow in my city, . . . but it is still early.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]And thank God only 4 of them where below the age of 12!.[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Fantastic work !! [/SIZE][/FONT]

x2495iiii 01-22-2010 10:31 PM

[QUOTE=lanceA;15988]I can import Alice 2.0 worlds with no problems as long as there are no Speech bubbles or Thought bubbles in the world. Once the import process encounters one of these, the import program hangs.[/QUOTE]

Sounds good, wonder whats wrong with my laptop... Well, I can always give it another shot, I suppose. I was hoping to export RP as a standalone application, if possible.

meirs 01-23-2010 03:55 AM

lanceA and x2495iiii, thanks for your efforts.
Sorry for the late response, here in Jerusalem we (at least I) just woke up :p

Regarding memory leaks - it needs lots of time and space to go through all kind of performance problems existed in Alice, but I can mention one simple problem, which can be solved easily: the [B]infinite undo stack[/B]. With an undo mechanism that records every action of the user, the garbage collector would never be able to clean anything in you World session, since everything (objects, methods, events, lines of codes, etc.) is pointed by the undo/redo stack. Simply limiting the undo stack length solves that.

Regarding the "My Library" folder - if you right click an object, you have an option to "save to my library", so that simply acts as a user gallery. When you open the object gallery, you'll find 3 root folders in it (in addition to local and web galleries), the third being your (user) gallery. I found it very useful for reuse of my own created objects.

I'll be glad to have a Room regarding Mama - please open one (if you could). By the way, you'll find many more improvements to Alice, which I guess I'll have to find the time to document in detail.


x2495iiii - could you describe exactly what was the error message you got when installing on Windows 7? and how you manage to install it (if you did)?

I will check the import problem you mentioned and try to find a solution.

x2495iiii 01-23-2010 04:27 AM

My tale of woe:

First, I tried to install Mama to my program files folder (the default location). Both times when I tried that, it said that it was unable to open file to write [insert name of file here], then gave me three options: retry (did nothing), ignore (moved to next file, where same error message was given), and abort (cancelled installation). I then tried installing Mama to my desktop. That worked fine and I was able to use Mama, however, the world importer still did not work. After testing increasingly simple worlds, I've found that worlds with any form of interactivity do not function properly when imported (if they import successfully, as they more often simply stopped loading halfway through with an error message).

The worst part is that this also happened on my home computer, which runs Vista. This suggests that there must be some security setting or default directory or something that my computers share which is preventing this from functioning properly.

meirs 01-23-2010 04:40 AM

Regarding the import problems, as I said, I will give it a more careful look and try to find a solution.

Regarding the install problems - the installer really does nothing but copying files to the default folder (Program Files) or to any user selected folder, then setting some basic registry keys (mainly, to be able to run .mam files with double click).
It does sound like a security problem, are other software installations work fine for you? can you simply write a file under "Program Files"?

x2495iiii 01-23-2010 05:12 AM

Surprisingly, yes. I've never had any problems with any other installers before now, and I don't recall putting any special restrictions (or ever running into such restrictions) on my Program Files folder.

x2495iiii 01-23-2010 05:36 AM

[QUOTE=lanceA;15988]I believe your fantastic efforts deserve that the Room open a new thread so we can help you 'tweak' a fantastic product. However, it would be very helpful if the x2495iiii, blah, blah'-person making models of guns and stuff that KILL could be encouraged to redirect [I]HIS[/I] energy to more positive ideas.

I want to use this with my students, and can't go the violence route.

So far, only 16 people will not wake up tomorrow in my city, . . . but it is still early.

And thank God only 4 of them were below the age of 12!.

Fantastic work !! [/QUOTE]

Based on this post, I've gathered two observations.

First, you don't have any respect for me, my work, or even my username. Ironic that my name is based off of a kid's-movie robot, whereas yours means "spear" in Latin. Who's the violent one?

Second, this kind of mid-paragraph topic shift would only be done by someone with a mental disorder. I'll be sure to be more sensitive to your special needs in the future.

lanceA 01-23-2010 08:05 PM

[QUOTE=meirs;15996]Regarding the import problems, as I said, I will give it a more careful look and try to find a solution.

Regarding the install problems - the installer really does nothing but copying files to the default folder (Program Files) or to any user selected folder, then setting some basic registry keys (mainly, to be able to run .mam files with double click).
It does sound like a security problem, are other software installations work fine for you? can you simply write a file under "Program Files"?[/QUOTE]

meirs
I just tried importing an Alice 2.0 file which uses Events into Moma and it works fine (this is on a Win 7 machine). I have not imported an Alice 2.2. world yet. I used the English version when importing.

I did notice a strange occurance though. . . . the application I imported begins with a 3D text screen. After the program loads, but before I play the imported program, the 3D text appears in "mirror image" in the World Viewer window. However when I play the application it displays normally and the up-arrow, down-arrow, etc. keys work fine.

Definitely not a major problem, just wanted to share it. Also, I used the English version when importing the Alice 2.0 world with Events.

G-R-E-A-T transformation of Alice!

lanceA 01-23-2010 08:18 PM

[QUOTE=x2495iiii;15998]Based on this post, I've gathered two observations.

First, you don't have any respect for me, my work, or even my username. Ironic that my name is based off of a kid's-movie robot, wheres yours means "spear" in Latin. Who's the violent one?

Second, this kind of mid-paragraph topic shift would only be done by someone with a mental disorder. I'll be sure to be more sensitive to your special needs in the future.[/QUOTE]

I apologize if I offended you. But there are more important issues out there then killing things. . . .

meirs 01-24-2010 04:07 AM

lanceA and x2495iiii,

Thanks again for your important feedback.
I tried importing several samples, with 3D text, with both "say" bubbles and "think" bubbles, and it worked fine for me (also importing into Hebrew version!). Could you please send me the world files that caused those errors? My email is my user name at eytam.com.

BTW, you deserve free licenses for you copies :) please send me your registration URL - you'll find it at "Help"/"Purchase License" - and I'll be able to make it registered.

x2495iiii 01-24-2010 07:31 AM

Thank you very much, meirs!

As for the worlds I tried to import, they can be found and downloaded in this post.

[url]http://www.alice.org/community/showthread.php?t=3205[/url]

I tried importing Resident Penguin 1, 3.1, and 3.5. None of them have any speech bubbles or thought bubbles, but all three are somewhat complex. RP1 imported, but the controls didn't work properly. The other two threw an error message halfway through loading.

Please tell me if they import for you so I know if the issue is with my computer.

Thanks again!

meirs 01-24-2010 02:24 PM

x2495iiii,
I found the transformation bug that caused RP2 and higher to fail, I will put the fix in the very next version. The other problem, where the gun sometimes doesn't shoot when you press the mouse, exists for me with RP1 and RP2 in Alice 2.2 too. But with the fixed version version 3.5 works perfectly. Great game!
BTW, as you probably noticed, Mama supports directly scenes, so the camera dummies you set where translated into scenes. That is a very convenient for creating multi-level games.
When you send me email, I will reply and attach the translated RP3.5

regards,
Meir

lanceA 01-25-2010 09:17 PM

Let me know if you have problems with the two ALICE 2.0 worlds that I sent you, meirs.

martina-r 01-26-2010 03:52 AM

Translation to German?
 
Hi,
I have been working with young students (10-14 years old), programming with Alice2.2 and struggling with the language.
Please let me know, when a German version is available (or if you need help with the translation).
I translated a part of an online tutorial (by Richard Baldwin; waiting for his permission to publish the text) and a German version of the program would be perfect:D

Please contact me :
office: mro (at) informatik.uni-bremen.de
private: martina (at) rosenboom.de

Martina

meirs 01-26-2010 04:16 AM

Martina,

I sure will inform you once I have a German translation, and will be glad to have you reviewed it.

Thank you for the feedback,
Meir

meirs 01-26-2010 11:06 AM

New build for Mama
 
Hi
I have fixed the import errors, the problem was with the compiled resources, I only had to recompile and attach the resources. I put a new build for Mama, available for download (it has the same version number).

Simply uninstall your current Mama version and install the new one (this does not affect license status).

x2495iiii - with this new fix you should be able to import and run RP3.5.

Let me know if you encounter any other issues,
regards,
Meir

x2495iiii 01-26-2010 11:22 AM

Excellent, I'll give it a shot now!

lanceA 01-26-2010 07:03 PM

[QUOTE=meirs;16093]Hi
I have fixed the import errors, the problem was with the compiled resources, I only had to recompile and attach the resources. I put a new build for Mama, available for download (it has the same version number).

Simply uninstall your current Mama version and install the new one (this does not affect license status).

x2495iiii - with this new fix you should be able to import and run RP3.5.

Let me know if you encounter any other issues,
regards,
Meir[/QUOTE]

Meir,
To insure I have the latest version I wanted to download new copies of both the English and Hebrew version. Using Win-7's Uninstall Programs application I uninstalled the Hebrew version. However, for some reason the English version is not listed in the Uninstall Programs application.

Is it safe to assume that I can simply delete the folder and any Desktop icons and then download again and install?

Thanks for your input,

meirs 01-27-2010 12:09 AM

[QUOTE=lanceA;16109]
Is it safe to assume that I can simply delete the folder and any Desktop icons and then download again and install?

Thanks for your input,[/QUOTE]

Sure, there should be no problem (actually even reinstalling Mama without first uninstalling old version should work fine), although it is a little weird: did you have a separate folder for the English and Hebrew versions? if so, inside the English version, under the root folder (e.g. "Program Files/MamaEn") do you see the uninstall.exe file? if you do, simply click on it. Otherwise, a simple delete and reinstall should work fine.

lanceA 01-30-2010 06:15 PM

[QUOTE=lanceA;16090]Let me know if you have problems with the two ALICE 2.0 worlds that I sent you, meirs.[/QUOTE]

Meir in response to your request, you have permission to post Ajax on your web site. I'm sending you a separate email with the particulars.

Good luck,
lanceA

larslem 02-03-2010 04:51 AM

Translate to Norwegian
 
Is it possible for me to translate the english version to norwegian after I have downloaded it? I don't expect you to translate it, ever.:)

Lars

meirs 02-03-2010 05:16 AM

[QUOTE=larslem;16326]Is it possible for me to translate the english version to norwegian after I have downloaded it? I don't expect you to translate it, ever.:)

Lars[/QUOTE]

Hi Lars
Why not? my intention was from the first place to translate it to any language existing on earth, though it won't be among the first ones. And regarding your propose to do the translation - it is not that simple, a translation to another language requires rebuilding the compiler (the Mama compiler), and for that the source files are needed (actually, also needed are the JavaCC - the compiler-compiler - source files). However, I'll be glad to use your help once it will be relevant, if that's OK with you.
thank you,
Meir

larslem 02-03-2010 05:56 AM

Could you send me the source files for me to translate them and I could return the for you to recompile? Or have you put some restrictions on distributing the source? Norwegian is a language spoken by very few(5 million), and should probably not be prioritized.

Lars

jediaction 02-03-2010 07:27 AM

SO many people are commenting. I am like backing away from this thread, is this about the translating. I remember like 2 months ago when this thread was not full of comments


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