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-   -   *serious* memory leaks using software rendering (http://www.alice.org/community/showthread.php?t=3754)

stefan 01-11-2010 07:01 AM

*serious* memory leaks using software rendering
 
[IMG]http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/8564/alicecpu.png[/IMG]
see the picture, for those who cant see it, it shows the task manager on the "performance" tab that shows an increasing amount of memory usage, at a certain point alice crashes whiteout warning

im using alice 2.2, using whit the "force software rendering" box checked (the world does not load otherwise.... though it does on school computers running XP)
the .exe runs whit visual themes disabled, because i felt like checking that box, i dont think it matters.

the world itself is about 20 MB large... made on various school computers, all running alice 2.2

any thoughts on this issue? leaking 4MB every second ain't nice..

my specs:
win 7 ultimate 64 bit
4 gb of ram
2.4 ghz c2d (mobile variant)
ati 4570 graphics card

jediaction 01-11-2010 07:32 AM

1. The picture does not show

2.Do fix this problem in 1 way, is make many objects that you do not see showing = false, it willl save your computer from crashing. It lowers down the memory usage

stefan 01-11-2010 08:33 AM

1 Attachment(s)
i dont care about "fixing" this problem as it works fine on school computers, dito on vmware running XP (aside from performance issues...)

just reporting an big bug:)

x2495iiii 01-11-2010 08:36 AM

Thanks for reporting. Hopefully, Alice 3.0 will be free of this bug.

jediaction 01-11-2010 09:00 AM

Memory leaks are a big problem, mabye in Alice 3, there will be no need for showing = false stuff

gabe 01-12-2010 09:23 AM

Alice 3 is much better at handling resources.

meirs 02-14-2010 07:12 AM

In the meantime you could be using Mama, which is an improved version of Alice2.2, with memory leak problems solved: [url]http://en.eytam.com/mama[/url].

zonedabone 02-14-2010 07:43 AM

FALSE!!!!! Right click on your Alice application and click properties. Click the compatibility tab. check "run this program in compatibility mode for:" and select windows xp. Simple as that! Sheesh! That's what Windows is made for. I don't see why people don't know about it.,

jediaction 02-14-2010 08:10 AM

I dont like mama. I might start using it but for now, im living with Alice 2.2 and dealing with its bugs

zonedabone 02-14-2010 11:14 AM

meirs is a walking advertisement! These are the ALICE forums! Mama isn't the solution to everything. I used it, and it ran REALLY slow!

meirs 02-14-2010 01:24 PM

Mama is not the solution to everything, but it certainly is a solution when you suffer from memory leaks. There are number of reasons to memory leaks in Alice, the obvious one being it's infinite undo/redo stack. Since almost every command is recorded in the undo stack, the garbage collector cannot free much.

An alternative would be to restart Alice every 15-30 minutes (depends on the amount of typing you do), so the the undo stack is reset. That should handle about 80 percents of the memory leaks (far as I can tell, there are no memory leak bugs in the storage of the worlds, so having "big" worlds is normally not the reason to the lack of memory).

Regarding the slowness of Mama - the only place where you wait longer is on load & save of worlds, since these are now in unicode format, and XML parsing of unicode is inherently slower than non-unicode (the XML storage is one thing I didn't have the time to improve). Other than that, to my experience, Mama's response is normally equals to Alice's, and sometimes better.

x2495iiii 02-14-2010 06:11 PM

[QUOTE=zonedabone;16925]meirs is a walking advertisement! These are the ALICE forums! Mama isn't the solution to everything. I used it, and it ran REALLY slow![/QUOTE]

That's really not true. Consider a few things.

First, he worked very hard on mama, spending his time and effort making a software that would fix the problems students were having with Alice. Time is money, and the time he spent making this isn't something he was compensated in any way for (Alice may be free, but the Alice Team still gets paid and given college credit for working on Alice). Really, it's only fair for users who want to use Mama to pay for it.

Second, Mama may not be free, but he deliberately priced it so that the average student could easily afford it.

Third, I've used Mama for awhile now, and the only problems I've noticed are those which meirs has already acknowledged and has been working on diligently since Mama was first released. At the very least he's still working on and releasing bug-fixed versions regularly. The Alice Team, though working on a much grander scale, have given up entirely on Alice 2.2 and haven't released a stable version of Alice 3 to date (much less a bug-fix for any of the errors).

Finally, as for mentioning Mama on the forums, I personally don't see the problem in it. If there was a virus on your computer and you asked for a program to remove it, I'd tell you what the program was, regardless of whether it cost money or not. It's the same here: people are posting about their problems with Alice, and meirs is telling you that his program can help.

zonedabone 02-14-2010 07:47 PM

Sorry. Zonedabone was in a bad mood. I was mad at Alice, so I guess it isn't fair to judge mama. Again, sorry.

meirs 02-15-2010 01:32 AM

That's OK zonedabone, I share with you the solidarity with an open source such as Alice and it's great contribution to the studying of computer programming. After all Mama started at the point where Alice2.2 reached, so it's improvements stand on giants shoulders.

Just to add one point to x2495iiii's: Alice is not totally free, since you need a documentation to really know how to use it (especially if you're a teacher), and for that you need to pay something between 30$ to 60$, depending on the book you've chosen. Mama documentation is (and will be) free, so the difference is actually only a matter of a business model.

[QUOTE]Regarding the slowness of Mama - the only place where you wait longer is on load & save of worlds, since these are now in unicode format, and XML parsing of unicode is inherently slower than non-unicode (the XML storage is one thing I didn't have the time to improve). Other than that, to my experience, Mama's response is normally equals to Alice's, and sometimes better.[/QUOTE]
And by now that's history - I've changed the storage from XML based into binary form (with backward compatibility) and now it runs terribly faster!
You'll have to download the new version - 1.5.2. - to try it yourself, enjoy :)

x2495iiii 03-01-2010 04:46 PM

1 Attachment(s)
I can confirm that. Just tried importing and executing RP 3.1 in mama and it's wonderful and CRAZY FAST! If RP4 turns out to be too big for Alice to handle, I'm importing it as a mama world and entering the exe file into the contest instead.

Go ahead and and try it for yourself. Unzip this file and try the Resident Penguin exe file. The 3d text is still messed up, but literally everything else is fixed and like I said before, the speed is amazing!

jediaction 03-01-2010 05:13 PM

Is this RP4?

My hero's game is like 48 MB. How do i make it a mama file

x2495iiii 03-01-2010 08:36 PM

No, it's RP 3.1.

Same way you would any other Alice world: Open mama, import the Alice world into it, then click the exe button in the upper right corner.

meirs 03-02-2010 02:51 PM

[QUOTE=x2495iiii;17828]I can confirm that. Just tried importing and executing RP 3.1 in mama and it's wonderful and CRAZY FAST! If RP4 turns out to be too big for Alice to handle, I'm importing it as a mama world and entering the exe file into the contest instead.

Go ahead and and try it for yourself. Unzip this file and try the Resident Penguin exe file. The 3d text is still messed up, but literally everything else is fixed and like I said before, the speed is amazing![/QUOTE]

Glad you liked it x2495iii :o - now the only left major issues are the audio synchronization and the support for Python scripting (as an alternative to Mama scripting). BTW, how did you manage to synchronize your contest-wining video on youtube?

x2495iiii 03-02-2010 04:06 PM

I did the voices while the soundless video was playing, slowed it down (to account for the speedup when exporting it), exported it, then imported the exported video into Movie Maker and synched the sound up there.

jediaction 03-02-2010 07:40 PM

[QUOTE=x2495iiii;17855]No, it's RP 3.1.

Same way you would any other Alice world: Open mama, import the Alice world into it, then click the exe button in the upper right corner.[/QUOTE]

I cant! It does not see alice files only mama files

zonedabone 03-02-2010 08:00 PM

Hey, meirs. If we use Python in Alice, and then open it in MAMA, will it run? If it does, then using EXE in the contenst is a great idea!

x2495iiii 03-02-2010 08:45 PM

[QUOTE=jediaction;17901]I cant! It does not see alice files only mama files[/QUOTE]

Open mama, then start a new world, then click the Tools button on the menu bar, then the Import Alice 2 worlds option from the menu that drops down from the Tools button, navigate to your Alice world, and select it.

jediaction 03-03-2010 07:24 AM

I tried and it says "Cannot Load" with a big error. When i tried loading up my mouse aiming system, it ran slow frames

x2495iiii 03-03-2010 08:45 AM

Weird. I wonder what the problem is. Any ideas, meirs?

jediaction 03-03-2010 09:37 AM

I really want to get this game in an Exe file. You said it raises the frame rate...Great, i think that would be good

meirs 03-03-2010 01:15 PM

[QUOTE=jediaction;17949]I really want to get this game in an Exe file. You said it raises the frame rate...Great, i think that would be good[/QUOTE]

Sounds weird to me too..

jediaction, could you put the world somewhere so I can download and import it myself ?

meirs 03-03-2010 01:17 PM

[QUOTE=zonedabone;17904]Hey, meirs. If we use Python in Alice, and then open it in MAMA, will it run? If it does, then using EXE in the contenst is a great idea![/QUOTE]

It is scheduled for the very next version to enable python scripting as an alternative to Mama. I promise it won't take long :rolleyes:

jediaction 03-03-2010 03:21 PM

OK well its the contest project and i cant finish it because of the frame rate. I dont know for glitches but its about done just needs polishing and i wont post it until the frame rate is better


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